First rough draft — just gathering content. Be patient…..
The intention is to flesh all of this out. The cartoon will get drawn and posted. Further elaboration will continue on the sense of “community” these blog sites claim to create and how they police that sense of community to maintain ideological conformity — the use of word limitations, name calling, banning and other techniques to enforce that conformity. An additional technique to be looked at will be the manipulation of the “community” by the blogmeister and his/her surrogates to churn the water and feed the frenzy prior to elections or other specific events and/or topics. (It is interesting to see that less than a week after the 11/06/07 elections, Huckleberries — aka HBO, Dave Oliveria, and DFO, etc — and other S-R blogs began tightening the screws, re-instating limits on blog lengths, designating “Trolls”, etc. Call it “culling the circle of community”.)
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Cartoon idea:
Bailiff (Doug Clark) has recalcitrant blogger by the scruff of the neck.
Three individuals — Judge, Jury, and Executioner — are seated.
White-wigged Judge Steve Smith begins the proceedings, leaning forward from the bench and shouting: “He’s a troll!”
Jury Dave “Papas Fritas” Oliveria responds snottily: “That’s enough evidence for me.”
Executioner Doug “Red Pen” Floyd rejoices: “Off with his bloomin’ head”.
(Possible variations–Doug Clark as jester rather than bailiff. Or perhaps just make the bailiff the jester. Steve Smith as “ayatollah”. Oliveria as “Napoleon”, with the complex and all.)
In the background, Col. Darel Maxfield, safely ensconced in Camp Besmaya, upon seeing Stacy Cowles burning an American flag which reads “Freedom of Speech”, screams uncontrollably: “And I thought I was over here teaching Iraqis to kill and sodomize each other so that we dont’ have to anymore and to defend the right of Mr. Brookbank, and Mr. Olsen, and Mr. Savage, and Mr. Cheney to say what the constitution allows.”
Finally, dressed as mother hen, VOX student advisor Erin Daniels, distracts the student writers with a quick course in how to write a PhD dissertation in 10 words or less and tells the kids, “Don’t pay any attention to the little man behind the curtain, he is just a troll”.
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One man’s troll is another man’s freedom fighter…
What is, after all, the difference between a “troll” (defined in my case as a politically and/or socially undesirable blogger, prone to “speak” at some length and to espouse extremely leftwing idea) and a Spokane police officer blogging anonymously and pretending to be your average citizen as he misleads members of the S-R’s “online community” (as the S-R, Smith, and Oliveria like to call it.)
“Jim” is Spokane Police Sgt. Jim Faddis, who also blogs — for unknown reasons — under the pseudonym of “Kevin”. (Officer Faddis, blogging as “Kevin” and pretending to be a civilian, engaged in this extensive defense of his police department’s conduct in the July 4, 2007 police attack on protesters. http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/opinion/archive/?postID=1490 )
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Ego of a blogmeister:
From Huckleberries — About this blog
D.F. (Dave) Oliveria is a recovering flamethrower with conservative tendencies who dominates the center ring of the online circus known as Huckleberries.
And of course the ego-strokers (and man does Huckleberries have a lot of ’em) — samples of Dave’s ego being stroked…. (include quotes from several of the more memorable and innumberable “lamepatas” at HBO)
That’s one of your greatest qualities, Dave. You’re willing to go out on a limb in the face of controversy. That is what makes this blog so interesting … and why I keep coming back.
Posted by Keith Erickson | 27 Oct 7:58 AM
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Right-wing Louisiana swamp rat stroking Oliveria’s ego…
…and quoting from some of his right wing screed (I never use such phrases myself except in mocking the language used by the right to malign the left):
http://kneedeepintheephemera.blogspot.com/2004_12_01_archive.html
I’m tired of them going off on God, Big Macs, SUVs and WMDs.
We Red Staters get offended, too – although we’re too busy earning a living to squawk in a letter to the editor.
I’m offended, for example, by school Christmas concerts that feature songs about penguins, snowflakes and Frosty the Snowman but not a single word about the Christ Child. By “Happy Holidays” rather than “Merry Christmas.” By Target giving the boot to Salvation Army bell ringers. By downtown merchants in Denver refusing to allow Christ-centered themes and songs in their annual Christmas parade.
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Raising a new generation of journalists on intolerance, anti-intellectualism, and censorship at the S-R’s VOX —
I recently made a comment — my first ever — at the VOX on a thread regarding the paranoia of citizens of Britain and the US about the Mega-Mosque being built in England. Totally of her own volition the student editor there took a comment I made about race and turned it into a new thread about race, referencing me by name (since I always blog with my full name). As soon as the issue began to agitate these youngsters too much, among other attacks was one that somehow I was an adult hang around in a young people’s club. Talk about paranoia.
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/vox/archive/?postID=2988#comments
One apoplectic youngster, calling himself Baroudeur, at the VOX blog was exceptionally disturbed by the subject matter of “racism in Spokane” and equally disturbed by what he perceived to be my unwillingness to answer every question asked of me, even as he and his cohorts were simultaneously unwilling to answer my questions. This is common in the blogsphere, in fact, it is a mortal offense in the bully dominated world of the blogs. One could sense this youngster savoring the power of the executioner and censor as he demand that I be tracked across the internet and branded as a “troll”:
(quote) I formally ask that David Brookbank be permanently banned from posting messages on the boards of the Vox, by both screen name and by IP address. Additionally, I ask that all subsequently used or created screen names, email addresses, and IP’s which can be attributed to David Brookbank be also banned from this site. Thank you for your time and consideration, -Alec Jones — Baroudeur
My guess is that Alec “Baroudeur” Jones probably holds the S-R masterblogger Dave Oliveria or editorial page censor Doug Floyd or editor-in-chief Steve Smith as his model for the power that the censor has. Now that the internet has stripped away much of the mystery and brought the wizard out from behind the curtain and into the light of day, the concept of “troll” is a useful one with which to brand different people, including dissidents. One can go to any of the S-R blogs right now (following my having been banned yesterday) and see any number of “blowhards” writing at length (one of the primary charges against me). One can also go to those sites and see any number of true “trolls”. In fact over the last 10 days, S-R editor Steve Smith engaged in various commentaries to his blog readers asking them to be tolerant and not egg on the “trolls”.
In fact, in precisely the same thread on racism from which my banning resulted at the VOX, a VOX student wrote this about a poster who has frequently and routinely disrupted the VOX over months, “Thunderbunny275” :
(quote) Thunderbunny is a troll; I highly doubt that he/she has said anything remotely serious or productive in their entire posting tenure.
Posted by lex | 8 Nov 2:00 PM
(end quote)
Yet when the S-R censors went to work, who got the axe? Not the widely acknowledged ‘troll’, “Thunderbunny”, but rather some innocent soul who, on the public internet site of a newspaper to which he subscribes and has been both a participant and subject for a least 25 years, runs into a discussion and mentions the entirely legitimate topic of race in Spokane and voila! An army of youthful apologists for Spokane came to life. Obviously mentioning racism and then commenting on the 17 fresh white faces on their blog page (not unlike all the white faces on the various bio pages of the S-R overall) ignited some pent up energy in them. In fact, once that thread about racism reached 46 posts and I was banned, the faculty adviser interceded to continue the tread but simultaneously reminded her kids that it is an axiom of journalism to “keep it brief”. Leaving aside for the moment whether or not that is correct (ie, whether or not brevity is the highest of all journalistic virtues) , those 46 posts plus the elevent more after she interceded represented nearly three times more posts than any other VOX threads to date in the month of November 2007 and 10 to 12 times more than most of the VOX threads in general. Of course, after reminding them not to pay any attention to the little man behind the curtain, faculty advisor Erin assured all the little darlings that she still loved them.
Note of interest: During the entire academic year 2007-2008 to date no other VOX thread has had more responses at the VOX than this one on diversity prompted by my comment. Guess what one other VOX thread tied with 57 respons? “Man Says He Spotted Virgin Mary in Lemon Slice”!
Next with 50 responses is “Lesson one, kids, when cops say to do something, do it” about the University of Florida tasering of a student who addressed Senator Kerry for some 45 seconds. It is a thread started by student adviser Erin Daniels in which the known VOX “troll”, ThunderBunny275, gives the first response by referring to “liberal fascists”. ThunderBunny275 then responds repeatedly leading this hapless group of future journalist into the intellectual wilderness, a reality which leads one to ask of faculty adviser Erin Daniels, “Anybody in charge, Erin?” http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/vox/archive/?postID=2057#comments
After those three most popular threads at the VOX comes, “Should we eliminate the SAT?” with 47 responses. (By the way, in answer to the question, given that 7th graders are taking the SAT now and getting 550 each on both parts of it, I would say, “Yes, get rid of it”. )
Let’s look at some of the topics on the VOX blog: Brittney Spears; vomiting pumpkins; butt-cracks; Scooby-Doo; Starbucks; Obama; anorexia; MySpace; Jena, Louisiana, etc…most of which have anywhere from zero to 12 responses. Hard it would seem to get a stir from these students. But if you do manage to get a discussion going, and it is — god forbid — a serious topic such as racism, stomp on it, remind ’em to keep it brief, and eliminate the instigator.
Remember, if you are the editor, you get to censure people and that’s an awful lot of fun, ain’t it now kiddies?
(Note to self– on second draft revisit the VOX Editor in Chief’s truly scary statements elsewhere at the VOX about her perception that most people in the US have decided they are willing to accept limitations on rights and civil liberties. You wonder where she has been as the urgent civic discourse on the constitution, freedoms, and fascism have taken shape in this country over the last 6 years. Be sure to make reference to Martin Niemöller and his poem “They came for the…”. Make reference to them coming for the journalists but not finding any because they were all in the newsroom hiding under their desks, reciting over and over again the correct answer to Bush’s post 911 commandment, “you are either with us or your are against us.”)
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Michelle Malkin, part of the Dave Oliveria mutual ego-stroke society
http://malkin-watch.blogspot.com/2005/11/ghost-blogging-redux.html
http://michellemalkin.com/2006/11/03/specially-autographed-stuck-in-iraki-want-this-on-a-t-shirt/
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http://www.spokesmanreview.com/tools/story_pf.asp?ID=42762
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Censorial tendencies of Oliveria and S-R praised by one of the circus clowns.
http://www.autoreviewonline.com/blogs/hbo/archive.asp?postID=19049
Wow,DFO. I think we need that word limit rule this morning.
Posted by Don Sausser | 10 Nov 1:29 PM
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http://f-words.blogspot.com/2006/01/most-idaho-huckleberries-are-sweet.html
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Questions about the DFO’s ethics
http://www.poynter.org/content/content_view.asp?id=113327
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When in doubt or if you are having a slow news day in Idaho, go for the semen coated brownies.
http://michellemalkin.com/2005/03/11/semen-coated-brownies/
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http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/conversation/archive.asp?postID=18667
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http://metrospokane.typepad.com/index/2007/05/thoughts_on_cic.html
That would be wonderful for Spokane, but I am sure it won’t happen, just look at our other bicycle events, such as critical mass, which attracts about 10 people, 15 in the nicer months. Most of whom are those teenage anarchist types. The city really needs to get behind bicycling as a viable means of transport. But that will only happen if they start to see that people are willing to use their bikes. So come on down to critical mass, the last friday of each month, between 4:30 and 5 PM, at the new fountain thing in Riverfront Park.
It could happen. How cool would that be? I see lots more people riding in the last year. CM is the only indicator of local bike culture. We just need more people committed to riding and organizing. Kudos to the BAB members for trying to shake things up. Next step: Bike/Ped position at City Hall.
Whoops. Meant to say “CM isn’t the onnly indicator of local bike culture.”
Critical Mass this month attracted quite a few cops. And that doesn’t look good to any of the people in cars or on the sidewalk who see 20 bikers being followed by 3 police crusiers.
I have posted some of my draft thoughts on the matter at my secondary blog http://SpankingTheSpokesman.wordpress.com
You may be aware that there is a discussion that has been going on at Dave Oliveria’s blog about word limitations, banning, etc. That is one of the places I was banned though I had only participated over a period of about 10 days. It was interesting to see that as soon as the elections were over, they began clamping cown over there. Dave and others seemed to use that blog prior to the election to put rumor and inuendo forward and then let others chew it over and churn it up. Now that the elections are over, there seems to be a desire to get it back to the sort of coffee clatch “community” as they like to consider themselves.
Question: Did Spokane Police Overdo It?
Dan Pelle/Spokesman-Review
Protesters with their hands bound behind their backs yell and cry out to police after their arrest near the clock tower in Riverfront Park in Spokane Wednesday.
Item: Celebrating, clashing over freedoms/Jonathan Blunt & James Hagengruber, Spokesman-Review
This is a disgraceful way for the police to behave. That it happened on the 4th of July and placed the rights of a corporate event sponsor over those peacefully protesting abuses of police power are no small ironies. Since when did donning a uniform give officers the right to behave like common thugs? “Under the Clocktower in Spokane’s Riverfront Park, 17 people protesting police brutality were arrested about 6:45 p.m. as people gathered in the park for Neighbor Day and the annual firework displays. “Officers charged the group, which included self-proclaimed anarchists and other teens and young adults, after ordering them to disperse. One arrest was after what police say was an assault on an officer. Protesters dispute that” — Frank Sennett/Hard 7.
Full post here; you can also read the discussion about this at Huckleberries Online here.
Question: Did Spokane police overdo it?
Posted by DFO | 5 Jul 2:54 PM
There are 18 comments on this post.
I think both sides were wrong in this. The police for over-reacting (trespassing in a public park?) and the protesters for desecrating the flag. I could see a case for inciting to riot being made, but trespassing?
Also, I have to bring up the fact that when people recording an arrest (which is legal by the way) have their phones returned to them the recordings are gone, but the police are going to take pictures of peaceful protesters? Why? Sounds awful fishy to me.
Is this the Chief’s idea of re-building the public trust? What’s next? Am I going to be arrested because I criticize the police for calling a Pepsi bottle a “deadly weapon” on this blog?
Posted by Casey King | 5 Jul 4:51 PM
If so, will the charges be disturbing the peace?
Posted by Casey King | 5 Jul 4:58 PM
That is a pretty neat trick. Were you there or know somebody who was Marshall? If so, did you or they get video? Thanks for the information.
Posted by Casey King | 6 Jul 1:35 AM
So the Clear Channel folks applied for and received a permit to have their function down at Riverfront Park and along come the protesters, who have no permit and were bothering other people and you want the police to do what? Casey, do you think they are going to rebuild the public trust by standing by and do nothing? Once again, that’s not what they get paid to do. Now, some people will cry they are just toadies for Clear Channel but for crying out loud. If you want to go where it’s peaceful and let the anarchists have their way, move to Eugene, Oregon. Looking at the slide show provided by the S-R I didn’t see one instance of over-reaction by the police. But hey, that’s just me. I suppose to some seeing people in handcuffs is apalling. As far as the officer who was assaulted, is he supposed to just get choked and shrug it off?
Is this what the people want?
Posted by Kevin | 6 Jul 8:00 AM
Greetings,
some interesting links..
http://www.spokanecity.org/services/documents/smc/?Section=10.12.050&Find=10.12.050
http://new.aclu-wa.org/detail.cfm?id=614
http://search.isp.netscape.com/nsisp/boomframe.jsp?query=flag+united+states+supreme+court&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3De2cd767e16dae22a%26clickedItemRank%3D3%26userQuery%3Dflag%2Bunited%2Bstates%2Bsupreme%2Bcourt%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.pbs.org%252Fjefferson%252Fenlight%252Fflag.htm%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DNSISPClient%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbs.org%2Fjefferson%2Fenlight%2Fflag.htm
One of the women who was peacefully demonstrating with the youth was physically assaulted, verbally assaulted (called faggot) and taken to jail without having her rights read to her or being told what the charge was.
The Mayor, and the Police chief will probably end up dealing with the ACLU on this one because of the new anti discrimination laws in this state..
to quote: Pastor Niemoller in Germany in world war II..
In Germany first they came for the communists and I was not a communist, so i did not speak up… google Niemoller to get the full text.. but you may be white anglo saxon protestant but they will come to get you too. John Olsen
Posted by John August Olsen | 6 Jul 11:24 AM
Thanks again for the info Marshall.
Posted by Casey King | 6 Jul 3:52 PM
Kevin,
I didn’t suggest the police do nothing, I suggest that they over-reacted considering the charges that were issued, re; trespassing. I suggest that in light of the number of dead bodies piling up at the feet of local law enforcement, they should have acted with more restraint. Further, they had time to go get cameras. Why not get a camcorder to document their side of this confrontation and remove all doubt as to what did or did not occur, and thus reassure the community that the SPD is responding to the justifiable concerns of the public.
Regarding, “If you want to go where it’s peaceful and let the anarchists have their way, move to Eugene, Oregon.” ~ No thanks Kevin, I was born here.
Regarding not seeing any cases of over-reaction, consider what the protesters were speaking out against. Also, consider the date and what that date represents in this nation. For your further consideration, I offer the following from the article on the events in question;
* “Officers charged the group, which included self-proclaimed anarchists and other teens and young adults, after ordering them to disperse.” ~ Was there such an urgent need that the police had to charge the group?
* “While some in the group began to picnic, sitting on a large American flag, a few others held signs and distributed fliers. Some asked police, who were beginning to congregate around them, if they wanted a copy of their literature on police brutality. Officers declined.” ~ The officers couldn’t have politely explained to the individuals offering the fliers that since they didn’t have a permit, they would have to leave at that time?
* “Police soon began to assemble around the group, and a couple with cameras photographed those in the crowd, who responded by chanting, “We are not afraid.” One officer began walking within a few inches of some protesters to take their pictures.” ~ Why behave in such a provocative manner? This behavior doesn’t sound as though it was intended to de-escalate the situation. To the contrary, it sounds designed to provoke and give the officers an excuse to respond with force. The photo taking sounds designed to intimidate.
* “A scuffle began, and a protester was taken to the ground and arrested. Police allege the male pushed and tried to choke the officer. Protesters said the officer shoved the man to the ground without provocation.” ~ Was this the same officer who was walking within inches of protesters? Is it not possible that the protester may have inadvertently brushed against the officer who was intentionally walking within inches of him (something no officer in the world would ever tolerate themselves), and then acted defensively when the officer slammed him to the ground for brushing against him? Additionally, when investigating assault charges, it is routine procedure to photograph any marks left on the victim at the time to preserve the physical evidence. I would be very curious to see the photographic evidence of this vicious attack on the officer’s life.
* “More officers gathered, and one read an order telling the protesters to disperse. Moments later, police charged the group, ripping down their sign and pushing protesters to the ground.” ~ Moments later. Not minutes, moments. Again, in light of the SPD’s history, perhaps 2 or 3 warnings to disperse were in order?
* “Those who were arrested were forced onto their stomachs. Their hands were tied behind them with plastic ties.” ~ I thought that following the Otto Zehm murder, the SPD had clearly stated that this was against SPD policy because of the risk of asphyxiation. Did I miss when this policy was reinstated?
Also Kevin, please note that I did not give the protesters a pass. I was very offended by the desecration of the flag, and greatly relieved that I was not there to see it, as I fear I may have lost my head and spent the weekend in jail, hence my suggestion that appropriate charges may have been incitement to riot. You get 2 or 3 vets who feel about the flag as I do, add a few people desecrating the flag, mix with high temps, and you have a recipe for a riot. Think I’m kidding or mistaken about this? Ask a few of the other vets who post here. I’m sure not all will agree with me, but I’ll bet most of those will tell you that they can see it happening though.
Posted by Casey King | 6 Jul 3:52 PM
Kevin/Casey:
Yup, I’ll sure second the flash rage thing re flag desecration. There are lots of things that need fixing in this country, but I have an incredibly tough time listening to anyone who mistreats the flag… It’s so quintessentially left: Rude, stupid, devisive, juvenile, UNGRATEFUL, et cetera.
Posted by Tom Frisque | 7 Jul 1:41 PM
Spokane in general has a P/R problem. The elected
officials, the police, the fire department, etc, etc,
keep making the same mistakes, over and over.
Doesnt anybody look at these boo-boos and say we have a problem SPOKANE. Get rid of the bad
actors, or you are doomed to keep repeating them.
The taxpayers are the big loosers.
Posted by Dustyroads | 7 Jul 8:37 PM
“The taxpayers are the big loosers.” ~ And the Zehm and Yohe families…and the family of whoever is next to die at the hands of local law enforcement.
Posted by Casey King | 8 Jul 10:37 AM
Casey,
You’re assuming that they went and retrieved cameras. They might have had the cameras there in the first place, as they did when Bush came to town a few years ago. And I also think you are putting way too much credibility into the S-R’s reporting of the event. As far as “charging” the crowd, has it occurred to you and others that there are tactical considerations when dealing with a crowd and specific methods are used to direct their movement. This may appear to be charging the crowd but once again, others might see it different.
As far as trespassing goes, it is possible to trespass in a public area and you can be arrested if you continue to trespass. If it goes to court perhaps the constitutional issues will be decided.
As far as being placed on their stomachs and restrained, it appears to me that none of the people in the picture at the top of this page had leg restraints applied (or as the paper insists, they were not “hogtied”). I think you can also see that they were not having any difficulty breathing.
How do you know they were not asked to leave before the arrests began? If people were going to be arrested for trespassing, they should have been offered the opportunity to leave or cease their activities. Don’t rely on the S-R to report the truth on this event or any other incident.
As far as the flag goes, it’s not against the law to burn it, crap on it, do whatever to it. Maybe bad flag etiquette or offensive to some but hardly illegal.
Posted by Kevin | 8 Jul 8:46 PM
Marshall,
You don’t include any penalty for all of those actions so I’m not convinced it’s against federal law to do that. However, I am going to correct myself in that I did find an RCW which makes it a gross misdemeanor to trample, burn or otherwise deface the flag. If that’s the case then the protesters could be charged with that in addition to the trespassing.
Posted by Kevin | 9 Jul 8:26 AM
Kevin,
Okay, let’s assume (as you appear to be doing) they got them before the fact. Why not get a camcorder at that time? As to the cameras in attendance during the President’s visit, I believe you will find that is SOP for a Presidential visit. The purpose of photographing the crowd is to see if anybody on any of the NSA watch-lists was in the crowd, what was the purpose of photographing the protesters? It would appear to be intended to intimidate the protesters. What was the purpose of passing within inches of protesters to take the photos? It would appear to be designed to provoke a response, thus giving the officer an excuse to over-react.
Re; “As far as “charging” the crowd, has it occurred to you and others that there are tactical considerations when dealing with a crowd and specific methods are used to direct their movement. This may appear to be charging the crowd but once again, others might see it different.” ~ You are right Kevin. I was looking at events through the filter of my life experience, and so I look back to my time in West Germany as a U.S. Army Military Police officer. During that time, I trained regularly in crowd control and riot control and deployed on one occasion to serve as back up for the German National Police during a riot. The first rule of crowd control that I was taught was to attempt to de-escalate the situation.
Re; “As far as trespassing goes…” ~ Kevin, I was not arguing that one can’t be charged with trespassing on public property. I was arguing that the reported actions of the SPD were excessive for the charges. I tried to be clear on this issue. If the charges had been incitement to riot then perhaps such an agressive response might have been more understandable.
Re; “As far as being placed on their stomachs and restrained…” ~ First, are you honestly trying to argue that no pressure is being placed on the solar-plexus or on the diaphragm? Also, once restrained, why were they not allowed to sit? Were they still resisting? If so, why were they not hogtied…er, placed in leg restraints and removed for processing so others would not take their example?
Re; “I think you can also see that they were not having any difficulty breathing.” ~ No, I can’t. Mr. Zehm was talking to the officers up until right before he went into respiratory distress. In fact, his last words were, “All I wanted was a Snicker’s bar…”
Re; “How do you know they were not asked to leave before the arrests began?” ~ Not to put to fine a point on it, but how about, because that isn’t what was reported. This was not an opinion piece, it was a “hard news” story. Where the reporters were not sure of what happened, for example the alleged assault on the officer, they give both views of the arrest.
Re; “Don’t rely on the S-R to report the truth on this event or any other incident.” ~ Considering the facts as reported by the Chief of Police at the time of the Zehm murder and as shown on the video tape of the incident, I will take the word of the S-R over the SPD until such time as the SPD starts showing itself to be trustworthy, hence my comment about “rebuilding the public trust.”
Re; “As far as the flag goes…” ~ First, my only comments about the flag were to point out that if the issue were of grave enough concern to respond in such an aggressive way, perhaps the appropriate charge might have been incitement to riot. I then went on to give an example of how the actions of the protesters could have incited a riot. While on the topic of the flag, allow me to point out that this is the utmost example of personal responsibility. It may not be illegal to treat the flag in such a disrespectful way, but if you choose this course of action, you must be willing to accept the consequences of your actions. If I (or others like me) see somebody treating the flag in any of the ways you suggest are legal, the consequences of those actions may be getting into a fight. Oh, and don’t worry about any hypocrisy on my part, as I will gladly accept the consequences of choosing to defend my flag (just as I swore an oath to do) by doing the weekend in jail and discussing my “crime” with a judge.
A point you didn’t address that I brought up Kevin, ““More officers gathered, and one read an order telling the protesters to disperse. Moments later, police charged the group, ripping down their sign and pushing protesters to the ground.” ~ Moments later. Not minutes, moments. Again, in light of the SPD’s history, perhaps 2 or 3 warnings to disperse were in order?” So what about it Kevin, considering the SPD’s history, would 2 or even 3 warnings have been in order?
Posted by Casey King | 9 Jul 11:06 AM
Casey,
I guess you can believe the S-R all you want but I don’t. As I don’t really believe any newspaper. Considering the warnings, if they had asked them 3-4 times that would not be enough for some. I’ll give the cops that were there the benefit of the doubt. There comes a time when you have to stop warning and start doing something and they did. I say bravo to them.
I’m done.
Posted by Kevin | 9 Jul 3:02 PM
Shalom,
One would be well served to review at your convenience the city channel tape of the city council meeting last nite. Fast forward to the end where the people that were demonstrating speak eloquently to the assembled council persons in their own well measured and gently impassioned words.
John August Olsen
Posted by John August Olsen | 10 Jul 9:07 AM
John, do you know if a video of it is online for download anywhere? Thanks for the information.
Posted by Casey King | 10 Jul 5:11 PM
Kevin, I used to trust the police, then I started counting the bodies and “unprofessional” actions. They have lost my trust. I was hoping the new Chief would try to rebuild the public trust, and I am trying hard to have faith in her honest intent and ability to clean up the mess the SPD has become, but that faith is fading fast, and a lot of other citizens feel the same way. When the public does not trust it’s local law enforcement, it stops calling them. When the public stops calling the police, crime flourishes. Further, if crime flourishes because the public doesn’t trust the police enough to call them any longer, can vigilantism be far behind?
Posted by Casey King | 10 Jul 5:34 PM
As a coordinator and planner for the annual Spokane Hempfest event (held in Spokane Riverfront Park with the full support of the City of Spokane, The Parks Dept., the Prosecutors Office, and the Police Dept) I would like to tune in, turn on, and then drop out of this blog.
Tune In:
First, when permits are issued and vendor fees paid for rental of park grounds the idea of “Free Speech” goes up in smoke and it becomes a paid/for profit event by the promoter, with refusal to provide service to anyone – like any business.
Second, if some group – say a group stupid DRUNK alcohol supporters drove down (intoxicated) and protested the dangers of Cannabis/Hemp at Hempfest, we would definitely have them arrested and/or removed as the law allows.
My point is this, if you pay to rent the park, you don’t have to let people protest anything. If I had paid the rent for a fireworks party at the park and invited the city, then I would have the right to tell anyone who didn’t like it to leave.
I am all about truth, even if it is controversial.
Turn On:
My question about this incident and the ensuing arrests is this: Was the group in question on one of the reserved sections of the park that had been paid for Clear Channel? Or, were they in an area of the park which was not paid for by Clear Channel?
If so, then they should have respected the promoters rights. If not, then the police had no right to stop them from walking through the park and demonstrating free speech.
Drop Out:
Peace, love, and happiness to everyone.
(Even drunks and protestors)
Master Twisted
Posted by Master Twisted | 12 Jul 1:29 PM
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The same cross-posted info at HBO
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/hbo/archive.asp?postID=15968
Q: Did Spokane Cops Squash Protesters’ Rights?
Dan Pelle/Spokesman-Review
Protesters with their hands bound behind their backs yell and cry out to police after their arrest near the clock tower in Riverfront Park in Spokane Wednesday.
Item: Celebrating, clashing over freedoms/Jonathan Blunt & James Hagengruber, Spokesman-Review
This is a disgraceful way for the police to behave. That it happened on the 4th of July and placed the rights of a corporate event sponsor over those peacefully protesting abuses of police power are no small ironies. Since when did donning a uniform give officers the right to behave like common thugs? “Under the Clocktower in Spokane’s Riverfront Park, 17 people protesting police brutality were arrested about 6:45 p.m. as people gathered in the park for Neighbor Day and the annual firework displays. “Officers charged the group, which included self-proclaimed anarchists and other teens and young adults, after ordering them to disperse. One arrest was after what police say was an assault on an officer. Protesters dispute that” — Frank Sennett/Hard 7.
Full post here,
Question: Did Spokane police overdo it?
Posted by DFO | 5 Jul 9:07 AM
There are 22 comments on this post. (XML Subscribe to comments on this post)
No
Posted by In the know | 5 Jul 9:14 AM
A picture is worth a thousand words. I hope this looser got his rabies shot.
Posted by Phil Thompson | 5 Jul 9:15 AM
He appears to be over acting for Pelle’s closeup camera.
Posted by Don Sausser | 5 Jul 9:28 AM
Would someone please explain the circumstances that the charges were based upon?
I heard that the charge is a felony assault (read that again: felony assault). This sounds more than a mere brush-up against an officer.
Posted by MamaJD | 5 Jul 9:30 AM
After reading the full post, absolutely not – the police did what they needed to do. And if the protesters believe in their cause, they should be willing take responsibility. But do you think we will hear, “Yes, your honor – hell ya, I was there. I did it. And I would do it again.” No – I have a feeling we will not be hearing the charged protester saying that.
Posted by MamaJD | 5 Jul 9:35 AM
Those emails were just office bantor, I did NOT have sex with that woman. We were just “blowing” off steam.
Posted by Daug Gone | 5 Jul 9:37 AM
I think this is part of the old gypsy curse again. Of course Spokane cops overacted, that’s just how they seem to do everything. It seems impossible for anyone involved in Spokane government to do anything that sheds a flattering light on the Lilac City. I fully agree with Sennett on this one.
Posted by OrangeTV | 5 Jul 9:44 AM
It’s probably just as well that I don’t travel to Spokane these days. If I get as far as the Spokane Valley, that’s far enough. Spokane seems to be pretty scary any more.
Posted by Joan E. Harman | 5 Jul 10:11 AM
I stumbled across this incident quite by chance, I had been sunning and reading at GU next to the river and decided I needed some exercise, so I walked down to River Front Park. I saw a crowd gathering and thought another musical event was going on, but nothing was happening on the stage, just a bunch of people gathered around these (mostly kids) dressed in black, who were holding up signs protesting police brutality. They were not blocking any sidewalks and were off the to side of the stage, where, again, nothing was happening.
There were about 8 cops there at first, and one of them told some other cops to “surround the group”. Some argueing ensued between the cops and the kids. Then the cops backed way off, and I thought things were calming down. I make a loop around the booths and such and came back to area where the protestors were, about 15 minutes after I had left earlier. Now there there about 20 cops surrounding the protestors, and someone told me one of the protestors had been arrested after brushing the shoulder of a cop. Next, the cops started pushing the crowd back, telling us to get back, or get arrested with the group. The cops ordered the group to disburse, or be arrested. Some of them left. Then the cops swarmed in and zip tied the protestors. The crowd of about 150 people was shouting “let them go”. Some of the protestors who had left the group and were in the crowd yelling “let them go” got arrested too.
There were also some “skirmishes” between people who were supporting the group, and a small number of people who were supporting the cops.
The cops were definitely acting in an intimadating manner. I don’t understand by what authority they decided, after the initial incident, that they had the right to disburse the group, who were being peaceful and non-disruptive.
Posted by greenlibertarian | 5 Jul 10:29 AM
“The cops were definitely acting in an intimadating manner.”
I think it has been proven in some study somewhere that law enforcement is more effective when utilizing the “intimidating” manner as opposed to the passive-agressive approach.
Posted by MamaJD | 5 Jul 10:34 AM
Often in the wake of these confrontations, both sides maintain that their actions were measured and peaceable. But there a subtext of communication going on that can’t be defined. Cops are instantly on edge around people like this and the protesters, who believe deeply in the rights guaranteed under the constitution, often become belligerent and communicate nonverbally a persona of rebellion, and defiance, which confirms the cops’ suspicions. You can call it the hiEven if the cops aren’t shouting or swinging clubs, they know they have the power to arrest and that they are protected from prosecution.
Protesters need to realize that courts side with the cops 99.9 percent of the time out of necessity. If you want to defy a police order to make your point, you need to have bail money on you.
Posted by Whippersnapper | 5 Jul 10:49 AM
Oops. I dropped a sentence that was supposed to say:
You can call it the hippie/policeman syndrome, but it’s more complex than that.
Posted by Whippersnapper | 5 Jul 10:50 AM
Sure we have “freedom of speech and the right to assemble” but at what cost? My concern is that these young people are (as the paper put it) anarchists. I do not feel they remember or appreciate our country’s history. Or even attempt to show respect for those who disagree with them. They take for granted that in many other countries where our soldiers are fighting for democracy that they could all be quickly imprisoned or shot for protesting “peacefully”. Those older or who at least study history know thousands have been killed for just being “in the way” and not conforming to some political leaders way of thinking or ruling. I really think this group got what they were hoping for: a scene where the police would look like they were at fault when they were “just” executing their rights. I mean come on! Trying to hand out fliers on police brutality to police officers is like rubbing yourself with a steak and then waving it in front of a pitbull guarding some storefront. They were being passively aggressive to obtain the same results as if they’d spit on or swung punches at officers. I admire their desire to “stand up” for what they believe in and “inform the world” about the attrocities going on around us, but they are so naive if they think they can upset the applecart without pissing someone off (no, probably their goal) or having to fork out some money for bail when they’re taking advantage of “rights” that they themselves did nothing to EARN.
Posted by Mom of an “anarchist” | 5 Jul 11:19 AM
Whipper writes, “protesters who believe deeply in the rights guaranteed under the constitution, often become belligerent and communicate nonverbally personna of rebellion, and defiance..etc.”
good thing Rep. Phil Hart read the Delcaration Of Independence at Independence Point in CDA and not at River Park Square. If you want a good dose of belligerance, rebellion and defiance, read it! Should be required reading for the Spokane Cops – daily!
God Bless America!
Posted by downunder | 5 Jul 11:21 AM
Rainbow Poney Spanker gets cuffed after he lips off to a cop for not using “good” english.
Posted by Daug Gone | 5 Jul 12:25 PM
Rights aren’t really rights if everyone threatens to take them away when you use them.
Posted by Sara | 5 Jul 12:55 PM
Re: Rights aren’t really rights if everyone threatens to take them away when you use them.
Wowie! and thank you. For some odd reason, your words reminded me of the lyrics from the song “Me and Bobby McGee” recorded by Janis Joplin, written by Kris (Rhodes Scholar, writer, actor, singer, janitor, political activist, helicopter pilot, bartender, etc.) Kristofferson, and Fred Foster.
Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to loose
Nothing, I mean nothing honey if it ain’t free, no no
Posted by Lesley Presley | 5 Jul 1:15 PM
To expand on “Rights aren’t really rights if everyone threatens to take them away when you use them.”
Rights are there to protect those that push the limits of that which is protected.
Posted by Whippersnapper | 5 Jul 1:36 PM
Anarchist or not the law can arrest you for what you DO, not who you ARE. Unless of course your police think otherwise.
Speaking of anarchists, where is Leon Czolgosz when we need him? Ahem.
Posted by riggs | 5 Jul 2:20 PM
It’s the heat of the moment. I remember the CDA police acting paranoid on July 4th, too. On the other side, there are always outspoken jerks who are out to make a point, such as the neanderthals pictured in the photo. Why must rabble-rousing have to transpire? Don’t people have anything else to do, SUCH AS LEADING a CIVILIZED LIFE?
Posted by Idaho Escapee | 5 Jul 6:31 PM
Just about everytime I see these ‘rights’ demonstrations (especially after they were ‘dinig’ while sitting on an American Flag – the very flag that they’ll be claiming represetns thier rights)
I am reminded of the late-great Al Capp who in his very popular ‘comic’ strip featured these ‘demonstrators’ and called them so accurately:
Students Wildly Indignant (about) Nearly Everything: S. W. I. N. E.
Posted by Milt Nelson | 5 Jul 8:07 PM
Of course the protesters dispute what the police say; they’re anarchists – it’s what they do.
Posted by nic | 5 Jul 9:49 PM
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